Wednesday, 5 April 2017

The contradictions of Fraser Nelson

Fraser Nelson is upset with this passage, from my blog about statistics yesterday:
A similar, but even more toxic, disjunction from reality is seen in those who claim that poverty is not about money. For example, Fraser Nelson frequently claims that the Labour government saw poverty solely through the lens of numbers, and that the Brown strategy of attacking child poverty by redistributing money to the poor via tax credits was simply manipulating numbers on a spreadsheet. 
Fraser says:
You quote me saying “poverty is not about money”. I’ve never said that. My point: it’s not JUST about money. Please correct.
Fraser can read and isn’t stupid, so he knows perfectly well I didn’t “quote” him directly saying “poverty is not about money”; rather, I attributed that view to him (among others). And I linked to his Telegraph article, in which he says this:
At the heart of the Child Poverty Act lies an agenda which has arguably done more damage to Britain’s social fabric than any idea in modern history. It is based on the Eurostat definition of poverty: an income 40 per cent below the national average....instead of fighting poverty, the Labour government spent billions manipulating a spreadsheet – to catastrophic effect.
Tax credits boosted the incomes of low income families and reduced poverty as measured by low income.  It is therefore, as a matter of simple logic, impossible for Fraser to admit that, as he did yesterday, that “low income is the most important measure of poverty”, and at the same time stand by his earlier view that billions were spent on tax credits “instead of fighting poverty”. 
    
If Fraser’s point was that at least some of the money spent on tax credits could have been spent more efficiently on addressing poverty in other ways – that is, that what Labour did was not necessarily the best way of fighting poverty - then he could have said that. But he didn’t. Instead, he claimed that money spent on tax credits made absolutely no difference to poverty – and indeed, in some undefined sense, had a “catastrophic” impact.  And just in case anyone thinks I’m quoting him selectively, nowhere in his entire article is there anything remotely consistent with his admission yesterday that low income is indeed the most important measure of poverty..

Now it may be that the obvious contradiction between Fraser’s article and what he said yesterday means he’s changed his mind. In that case he should say so. Or maybe he never really meant what he wrote, but went over the top in his hyperbole, Again, he should say so. What he shouldn’t do is try to pretend he never made an argument he – rightly – describes as “repugnant”. 

Finally, Fraser decided to invoke the Independent Press Standards Organisation, resulting in this exchange:




He has declined to take me up on it. The offer remains open. 

18 comments:

  1. The March 2012 Telegraph piece you linked to is a gem, suggesting as it does that the Coalition came up with the idea of reassessing people on Incapacity Benefit, when it was actually described in a Green Paper published in 2008, when Gordon Brown was PM.
    Fraser was spookily accurate with his predictions for the reassessment programme though: "It will doubtless involve lawsuits, mistakes and embarrassing headlines". And the rest, Fraser!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. QUICK CURE OF HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS 1 & 2 WITH { oshogumspelltemple@live.com }

      I will advice you to contact Dr Oshogum(oshogumspelltemple@live.com ) who solve all problems and give cure very fast without stress and delay. i was getting drawn in herpes virus, and medical prescription (Aciclovir‎, ‎valaciclovir‎, ‎Valtrex‎... etc) was not helping me. Till a lab doctor (my friend) direct me to contact Dr oshogum for quick cure because he also read from people whom Dr oshogum have cure of HSV 1 & 2; Virus, HIV/AID, HLS virus, Hepatitis B, STAGE 3 cancer and other STD's. I contact him as direct with his email, i explain my problem to him. He replied with what he want me to do as soon as possible because he don't want delay. After i did what he ask, he send me a Remedy which i used as he prescribed. He is a miracle worker.. It is never too late with Dr oshogum contact him today with { oshogumspelltemple@live.com }. I went for test after two week and my result came out negative. Today again i did text and my result is always negative. Note he also have cures to diseases like

      PENIS ENLARGEMENT
      DIABETES 1/2
      WEAK ERECTION
      HERPES
      HIV/AIDS
      PILE
      STROKE
      PREMATURE EJACULATION
      ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION
      HPV
      ALS
      CANCER/RECTUM OR PROSTRATE
      HEART FAILURE
      ANAL FISSURE

      Delete
  2. PS. I wasn't reading JP's blog at 0342 in the morning, BTW. I'm not that enamoured!

    ReplyDelete
  3. And now it's 2143 UK time, anyhoo...

    ReplyDelete
  4. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  6. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  8. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Isn't the implied point in Mr Nelson's article that he believes that the Eurostat measure of relative poverty is easily manipulable (you get more people out of poverty more cheaply if you dedicate your resources to the people nearest the poverty line) - i.e. the richest poor people? Whereas you would improve the whole of society more if you targetted those resources on the poorest poor people (absolute poverty, if you like)?

    All the best

    ReplyDelete
  10. As I say in blog:

    If Fraser’s point was that at least some of the money spent on tax credits could have been spent more efficiently on addressing poverty in other ways – that is, that what Labour did was not necessarily the best way of fighting poverty - then he could have said that. But he didn’t. Instead, he claimed that money spent on tax credits made absolutely no difference to poverty – and indeed, in some undefined sense, had a “catastrophic” impact. And just in case anyone thinks I’m quoting him selectively, nowhere in his entire article is there anything remotely consistent with his admission yesterday that low income is indeed the most important measure of poverty..

    [Fraser has made that argument elsewhere but it's not the one made here. As it happens, it's also wrong; the IFS debunked it comprehensively in 2010.]

    ReplyDelete
  11. Hello my dear,

    I see your blog every day ... your blog is Very useful for me and I love so much ...

    You can see


    The Only Live Haggle & Negotiation Platform Offering Hundreds of New and Refurbished Products Daily. Yes, We're Real...Really.


    Visit Now - business negotiation strategies

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hi Everyone! My name is CHERRYSHANE. I was diagnosed with HERPES 2 in April of 2012 when I was 24 years old who just completed my MA in sociology at the University of Northern Colorado where I explored the role of stigma in the process of disclosing a genital herpes diagnosis.I have wanted to get this virus cured, I am happy to share that with you! few weeks ago i came on search on the INTERNET if i could get any information concerning the prevention of this disease, on my search i saw a testimony of someone who has been healed from (Hepatitis B and Cancer) by this Man Dr ERO and she also gave the email address (eromosalespelltemple@gmail.com) and advise we should contact him for any sickness that he would be of help so i told my husband about it the he ask me to write him because this pain has been constant especially in my knees. so i wrote to Dr ERO telling him about my (HERPES Virus) he told me not to worry that it was going to be cured!! then i took the medicine he sent me, which few weeks later i started experiencing changes all over me as the Dr assured me that i have cured hence i have taken the medicine and then after some time i went to my doctor to confirmed if i have be finally healed behold it was TRUE. I can understand that lots of people are been diagnosed with this same virus so am excited to be able to share some of my experiences and thoughts about this man that you can as well contact him for help living with genital herpes is not a good thing..HERE ARE HIS CONTACT: EMAIL : (eromosalespelltemple@gmail.com) OR YOU CAN AS WELL VISIT HIS his website http://eromosalspiritualtemple.webs.com BETTER STILL CALL OR whats-app HIM via+2348161850195..GOD BLESS

    ReplyDelete
  13. MY HERPES VIRUS WAS COMPLETELY CURE BY DR Okojie HERBAL MEDICINE, HE CAN ALSO BE OF HELP TO YOU, CONTACT HIM TODAY at okojieokojieherballife@yahoo.com

    I just want to thank Dr okojie for giving me my life back …I thank GOD that I did find him…I fell 2million% better…I don’t know how I could have gone on with out him …every one there should be commended for the truly awesome thing Dr okojie is doing… I had separated from a 10 year marriage and had experienced several sexual partners after the separation. About 6 months of episodes of unprotected sex, I developed itching and burning in my genitals and the appearance of clusters of fluid filled lesions in my vagina and buttock. I also developed a fever and swollen glands in the groin. I had episodes of extreme pain on passing urine. My sexual activity came to a rapid stop because of extreme pain. I also developed a vaginal discharge. I saw my doctor who took swabs and told me that I most probably had Herpes. I was given tablets, which helped. Two months after the tablets I again had a recurrence both of my vaginal pain and the rash on my buttock. I took a blood test and verified I was positive with the HSV2 virus. I was so frustrated and depressed, I felt like my world had come to an end. Then I started searching for help from one place to the other, I used so many medication, all to no avail. Until one day when I read online on Dr okojie herbal remedy cured a man with a with virus, the testimony sparked a hope in me, then I contacted him immediately, after getting the medication from him, I used it for just 7 days as instructed by Dr Okojie . During the course of treatment (with the herbal medicine) the lesions on MY buttock completely healed and I have not had any recurrence of the vaginal irritation since. I tested after the 90 day waiting period I tested negative and has remained HSV free since. I'm sharing my testimony because Dr Okojie temple was the first place where I found hope on my journey. Dr okojie has done amazing things in my life and I hope that my testimony will help someone that may be in a situation that I was once in. Contact him today. Email: okojieokojieherballife@yahoo.com
    He can also cure the following:
    HIV
    CANCER
    DIABETES
    LOW SPERM COUNT
    BARRINESS
    joystick AND BOOBS ENLARGMENT
    BRAIN DISEASES.
    okojieokojieherballife@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
  14. MY HERPES VIRUS WAS COMPLETELY CURE BY DR Okojie HERBAL MEDICINE, HE CAN ALSO BE OF HELP TO YOU, CONTACT HIM TODAY at okojieokojieherballife@yahoo.com

    I just want to thank Dr okojie for giving me my life back …I thank GOD that I did find him…I fell 2million% better…I don’t know how I could have gone on with out him …every one there should be commended for the truly awesome thing Dr okojie is doing… I had separated from a 10 year marriage and had experienced several sexual partners after the separation. About 6 months of episodes of unprotected sex, I developed itching and burning in my genitals and the appearance of clusters of fluid filled lesions in my vagina and buttock. I also developed a fever and swollen glands in the groin. I had episodes of extreme pain on passing urine. My sexual activity came to a rapid stop because of extreme pain. I also developed a vaginal discharge. I saw my doctor who took swabs and told me that I most probably had Herpes. I was given tablets, which helped. Two months after the tablets I again had a recurrence both of my vaginal pain and the rash on my buttock. I took a blood test and verified I was positive with the HSV2 virus. I was so frustrated and depressed, I felt like my world had come to an end. Then I started searching for help from one place to the other, I used so many medication, all to no avail. Until one day when I read online on Dr okojie herbal remedy cured a man with a with virus, the testimony sparked a hope in me, then I contacted him immediately, after getting the medication from him, I used it for just 7 days as instructed by Dr Okojie . During the course of treatment (with the herbal medicine) the lesions on MY buttock completely healed and I have not had any recurrence of the vaginal irritation since. I tested after the 90 day waiting period I tested negative and has remained HSV free since. I'm sharing my testimony because Dr Okojie temple was the first place where I found hope on my journey. Dr okojie has done amazing things in my life and I hope that my testimony will help someone that may be in a situation that I was once in. Contact him today. Email: okojieokojieherballife@yahoo.com
    He can also cure the following:
    HIV
    CANCER
    DIABETES
    LOW SPERM COUNT
    BARRINESS
    joystick AND BOOBS ENLARGMENT
    BRAIN DISEASES.
    okojieokojieherballife@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
  15. Hi Everyone
    My mind, for some reason, wont let go of my memory's of My Wife. I had a very big problem with my wife few months ago, that lead to her leaving me. All efforts to get her back proved abortive. one day while going through the internet i saw so many testimony of this great man called Dr.Goodluck and how he helped people with all kinds of problem, his advert was everywhere,. Although I never believed in spell casting, but I had no choice than to give him a try so i contacted Him, I was so desperate to have my wife back with me once again. So I did all he told me to do. He told me thatmy wife will come back to me in the next 17hours after the spell is completed. I was skeptical. He casted the spell for me and i was so anxious waiting to see or hear from her, it was just 14hours after the spell was done my wife called and said she was coming HOME and she was asking for forgiveness for her ever hurting me before…..It was a dream come through for me!!! that was how my family and relationship was save and our relationship is now stronger than ever.my advice to you out there facing same problem or even worst then mine cry no more and contact this great man called Dr Goodluck He's capable of handling any kind of problem.
    Contact him with his Email him at: goodluck05spellcaster@gmail.com
    Call or Whats-app him: +2348138654465
    website http://drgoodluck.simplesite.com or http://lovespelltogetyourexback.weebly.com

    ReplyDelete
  16. Hello every one.
    I'm from US-Dallas. I'm am so excited am a Complete woman Again, I Was Infected With Herpes virus since 3 Years now I am devastated and am finding it hard to cope i was emotionally down I Have Been Seriously Praying To God And Searching For Cure.So as I was browsing through the Internet one day, I came across a website that suggested that Dr. IyaryI can help cure any type of virus like Herpes, Hiv/Aids cancer and Asthma…e.t.c And I Contacted Him, He Sent Me A Medicine And Directed Me On How I Will Take The Medicine For 21 Days, I Did So And Went For A Test And My Result Came Out As Negative. I Am So Happy, I Shared Tears Of Happiness And I Have Taken It Upon My Self To Always Testify About How God Used Dr. IyaryI To Solve My Problem. I Am A Clean woman Now, Without Any Virus If You Are Infected With Any Disease Like HIV AIDS, CANCER ,HERPES Or Any Other Disease You Can Also Be Happy Like Me By Contacting Dr. Iyaryi Through His Email driayaryi2012@hotmail.com And also Reach him on WhatsApp Number: +2349057915709 Thanks Dr. Iyaryi driayaryi2012@hotmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  17. QUICK CURE OF HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS 1 & 2 WITH { oshogumspelltemple@live.com }

    I will advice you to contact Dr Oshogum(oshogumspelltemple@live.com ) who solve all problems and give cure very fast without stress and delay. i was getting drawn in herpes virus, and medical prescription (Aciclovir‎, ‎valaciclovir‎, ‎Valtrex‎... etc) was not helping me. Till a lab doctor (my friend) direct me to contact Dr oshogum for quick cure because he also read from people whom Dr oshogum have cure of HSV 1 & 2; Virus, HIV/AID, HLS virus, Hepatitis B, STAGE 3 cancer and other STD's. I contact him as direct with his email, i explain my problem to him. He replied with what he want me to do as soon as possible because he don't want delay. After i did what he ask, he send me a Remedy which i used as he prescribed. He is a miracle worker.. It is never too late with Dr oshogum contact him today with { oshogumspelltemple@live.com }. I went for test after two week and my result came out negative. Today again i did text and my result is always negative. Note he also have cures to diseases like

    PENIS ENLARGEMENT
    DIABETES 1/2
    WEAK ERECTION
    HERPES
    HIV/AIDS
    PILE
    STROKE
    PREMATURE EJACULATION
    ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION
    HPV
    ALS
    CANCER/RECTUM OR PROSTRATE
    HEART FAILURE
    ANAL FISSURE

    ReplyDelete